Category: Geeks r Us
I know that some of you build computers and/or are familiar with prices for hardware etc. So I'm wondering if someone can give me an honest estimate for a custom-made computer with the following specifications, if it's even possible to make one like this. Of course, the labour would be up to the designer but a general idea would be nice. Dbd means determined by designer and ip means if possible.
Form Factor
under 10 inches
no trackpad or mouse buttons
hard disk capacity
No more than 6gb and no less than 100mb. Former preferred.
Ram/Rom
dbd
cpu
No less than 80486 and no more than pentium II.
input
built-in keyboard
No touchscreen or stylus.
Screen-related
resolution, dbd
graphics etc. dbd
Battery
dbd Ability to recharge would be nice.
Battery life must be grater than five hours.
Must have an alarm for when it's running low.
Must be able to save information if main battery dies.
Connectivity
1 standard rs-232 serial port (2 strongly preferred)
1 pcmcia slot (2 ip)
1 parallel port
1 2.0 usb port (optional)
1 line-in jack or microphone jack
1 headphone jack
1 modem jack (optional)
1 ethernet jack (optional)
OS
Enhanced DR-DOS
Latest stable release with all necessary drivers and patches.
Software
WordPerfect 5.1 or 6.0 or WordPerfect Office or Editor
a media player
a good internet browser
an mp3 recorder
an accessible ocr program
QuickBASIC 4.5
Laplink or other program to connect to another pc
other essential software dbd
Ideal/optional
built-in speakers and/or soundblaster card
wireless card
built-in microphone
built-in webcam
built-in speech
That's all I could think of for now. The last category is purely optional, though the sb card would be great. I highly doubt built-in speech is possible but had to add it. So yeah, how much would it cost? Does anyone know where I can have this computer made or if there's already one out there that meets a good amount of these specifications? I'm willing to get one that's already been made, but the amount of palmtops and some of their limitations, particularly in their hard disks, is driving me crazy.
You can't easily make stuff with custom hardware when that hardware is so out of date. You'd have to find old processors on ebay if they even exist, create a custom case, do a crapload of soddering, and it would probably cost well over $1000 do to the hassle of finding out of date hardware and the need to build a custom case. Just get a netbook for $300 and install linux on it if you want a text interface.
your best bit will be get a netbook. but even with that, it commonly come with 160GB. for your requirement, you can get a few years old netbook, the first generation or something close to that. maybe less than $150 with let say 7 or 9inch. and either 60GB or 80GB
it have build in microphone and webcam for most netbook, and i can't find a netbook without a speaker so far, if you do find one, do let us know.
the problem with it though, is it usually come with linux or XP.
generally linux will be slightly cheeper...
i believe you can get a netbook with 512Ram still, and, er, at least 2 USB2.0 drive, and 1 SD card reader.
if not, you can always go to Ebay and try your luck on searching for old parts as you wanted above, if you are lucky, you might get some from carport sale around places
Agree with what Jaird said. Just get a machine with Linux. And that hardware is so early 1990's! Its not about DOS anymore, its about DualCore processors,(now quad core.) , Its about modern operating systems that can do the same thing that DOS an do, but more secure. If you want a completely DOS-like system, just use Gen2,(sorry), don't know much about it.
£350/400 plus shipping.
If you do actually want this then msn me.
Most parts would be used and I wouldn't offer any worranty other than doa.
£350/400 plus shipping.
If you do actually want this then msn me.
Most parts would be used and I wouldn't offer any worranty other than doa.
£350/400 plus shipping.
If you do actually want this then msn me.
Most parts would be used and I wouldn't offer any worranty other than doa.
So, in otherwords, you're gonna make you pay her $400 to hack her equipment apart, put it in an enclosure, and maybe it'll work, but probably not? Yeah! Great investment!
lmao - I never said it would be a good investment, its her that wants it.
I mean at the end of the day, however weird it sounds to us, if I get paid, she'll get something that works although I'm (Perhaps unwisely) assuming that her os will work on the spec that she posted and that she'll be researching the names and the ware abouts of the different programs.
I was actually thinking of using a old toshiba libretto that I have gathering dust for this.
O and as a final note, I quoated her a price in pounds so its probably more like $650.
O and while I remember, thanks for your response on my speaker topic, did what you told me and it works well.
I shouldn't even dignify this with a response but c'mon! How many times have we said we don't work on that shit anymore? Good luck with the offer you've gotten, that's probably all you're gonna get, because nobody else has access to the old parts ... I haven't even seen Socket 7 (for desktop) parts in years, and nowadays for most of us anyway hardware isn't really the business as it was in the nineties. Go find your hobbyist web sites that have this, if they're out there, but *no* new parts of this type are geting made. Sooner rather than later, solid state drives will be in more than just the newer net books.
What's wrong with getting a netbook and setting up this DR Dos thing on it, if you want something no larger than 6gb create a partition that is that small and run it, or use a virtual machine.
In any case, you should go through the DR Dos people with that kind of question, as they are more likely to either do this type of stuff themselves or know who would be crazy enough to want it (well, crazy in my opinion, but that's just me).
A 7 inch netbook with pretty crappy processor should be yours for $125 or so if you search through Craigslist or Ebay.
or if you really want the serial ports and usb 2.0 and old pentium 2 laptop or desktop on ebay or craigslist should run pretty cheap.
To The Lil Dark Piggy,
I agree with your suggestion about having Tiffanitsa use Gentoo. It is one of the few Linux distros that you can install to your liking. If you don't want a desktop, you don't install one. It has speech from the get go. It has Speakup and ESpeak built in to the kernel, as long as the soundcard is recognized, you can get it to install with speech. Though compiling the machine specific options will take either a few hours, or days. Considering how fast the CPU is. If you want any specific Gentoo and speech questions answered, do a google search for Gentoo and accessibility. One of the first links you'll find will be the Gentoo accessibility mailing list with associated archive and joining information. When I get my new system from rehab, I'll see if RHEL (Redhat Enterprise Linux) from Oracle likes the hardware. If it doesn't, and I'm too lazy to get sighted assistance, or I run into enough issues, I'll be installing Gentoo on the system. I know of a guy on heer who tried to install Gentoo, the install failed, but the compile took a good 2 days with a single core CPU. I'm willing to dig up accessibility information related to Gentoo, if you guys are interested.
I´d be interested to see a linux Netbook with an Arm processor, could easily provide 15 to 20 hours of battery life. They´re forgetting what was great about netbooks now, i.e. portability and price, now they come with Windows 7, 11 inch and a dual core processor at $400 with 3 to 4 hours of battery life, that´s not a netbook any more.
Netbooks are great, but they don't have the connectivity that I want. I don't really need usb, except for storage devices and I don't use sd cards. But I do need serial and parallel ports and a pcmcia slot, though the latter drains the battery. And what is the difference between a netbook and a palmtop anyway? They're the same as far as size. I was thinking of getting an HP 200LX, but the prices are totally insane and the memory is very poor, though an upgraded 32mb one is okay I guess. The bad thing is that they already have MS-DOS 5.0 installed and I'm not sure if they can be loaded with something else. On the flip side, there's tons and tons of software and many user groups out there for it... Still, something a bit more modern would be preferred, which is why I'm thinking I should go custom.
To b3n: Opaaaaa! It's doable? Really? Wow! Everyone's telling me it's not possible. The os will definitely work with those specs and the software can be looked up. If absolute worst comes to worst, I can go to the DR-DOS forum and ask there, but most is freeware, abandonware or still being developed so always being updated. I'll have to look up the stats on the toshiba libretto. Perhaps, I could use it as is and I wouldn't need to do anything.
To wildebrew:
That's a very good idea. I should ask on the lists! I never even thought of that. And a netbook for $125? Wow! I have a compaq Armada 1750, which has everything imaginable and which is the best laptop ever, in my opinion, but it's re'e'e'eally heavy to carry around and I'd go nuts if anything happened to it. Yeah, I want something with many hours of battery life, not something that'll die after like two hours.
I went to ebay, to see if I could find a nice palmtop, and all I could say is wow! I typed in handheld under vintage and didn't get much and then tried portable. I don't know how to say it. lol They were too old for me! I mean, cp/m, laptops with 300 baud modems, 5.25 inch floppies and trs80 machines? Uh, try again! And since when did portable equal over 30 lbs?
You said you "went to EBay right? Everything is for sale, and all opinions are up there. You'll probably get your custom machine built, but how reliable will it be? Interesting concept, and possible, but not reliable possibly. Keep this board informed please. I'm interested.
I actually found a few Apple IIcs for no less than $200. One was over $300 and there was still time on it. Mine's in mint condition, so I'm willing to wager that it's worth a whole bunch of money. If I take that, plus the money I'll be getting when I sell some other items, I should have enough for my machine. *smile* In the meantime, I'm gonna do a bit more research.
Some people never learn do they... *grits teeth*
hey. I love vintage stuff. I have an old Pentium III in my room. I just picked up todaya pentium IV 1 ghz laptop with Windows ME. i love the old times, because life was so much simpler and you wern't bombarded with the internet. Hence my missions to have every windows version in a virtual machine installed. Eventually I'm planning to have every version of Windows on a separate old machine in my home, that is probably after College is over for me. Old = great and much bettr than the new
But why stick only with Windows? The newer ones are full of bloatware and problems and it's a gui system. From what I heard, 95 was very stable and 98 SE was okay. I've used both but never looked into the technical details. The only Windows I never got to play with was 3.1 and earlier. But I've heard those are really strange. I have 3.1 in one of my machines but no reader for it. Anyway, glad that someone else likes the old stuff.
Hey ben, I think she got the fact that you will sell it to her for $600. Theirs also no point in telling her that she should try linux, CLI or otherwise, she doesn't listen anyway. We've told her this about 5 or 6 different times already, and nothing we say will change her mind about going to this old dos system.
I'm not interested in Unix or Linux. The DOS system I'm going to was updated earlier this year and is still being improved upon, so I'd hardly consider it old. And there's tons of modern software out there as well as old standbys that have stood the test of time. The only factor that applies here is screenreader accessibility. But ProVox has been made open source,, so there's at least one reader that can be modified to work with the newer software if necessary. Sadly, though, I'm not a programmer so would need to find someone who's able to help me there. But for the basics, VocalEyes or JAWS should do the trick.
I accidentally stumbled on the Portege 610CT from Toshiba, the first Pentium ultraportable, and it gave me an idea. Perhaps, what I can do is look up the Windows 95 machines. They might have everything I want and I can just change the os. The one problem I keep running into is the lack of information on many different machines. I can easily look up the specifications for some of them but others seem only to have adapter and battery parts listed on the net. Also, as I said, I want something with a decent battery life. It seems the more modern the machine, the less life it has and that's unacceptible for me in a portable computer.
She is interested in referbishing old and out dated tech and making it work up to standards, and that can't happen. It is a fun hobby, but when she needs to do things she uses something updated I'll bet. Now about windows and bloatwear? Silly idea. XP then now 7, and heck even Vista is solid, reliable, and most of all 95 % trouble free. As a hobby fooling around is fun, but when I need something done I just want to sit, type, and relax not make it happen. That's the computers job right? About your research. Go to your local library and inquire on manuals, or text books on things you are looking in to. Next how about googleing a hobbyest site for people interested in your hobby? Just some food for thought. Please as I say keep this board updated on your progress.
And plus if you don't like the bloteware, remove it. Plain and simple.
And plus if you don't like the bloteware, remove it. Plain and simple.
Sorry about that, the page took forever to refresh.
it's not about the bloatware for me. It's about the complexity of life which is today when it comes tto Windows. Sure in 7 you could use the search box but now that we have all these technologies I think life has grown more expanded and the dialogboxes more complex filled with links and graphics and bunch of buttons. Windows 95 in a vmware environment loads fast and is great to use for instance. I'm thinking of just having that start up when I start Windows so that I could use an old Windows version as my OS :)
I will hwoever be buying a win95 old laptop from ebay probably, or craiglists. I collect this stuff :) I am also willing to pay anyone $50 if they have an old laptop (anywhere between a Pentium I to a Pentium IV CPU) that they are wanting to throw out and don't need. I don't need as old of a machine as she does, but certainly one which runs win95 or even 98 would be useful. I don't want a desktop, but a laptop.
Well, two y'all I extend the offer that you can buy my 7 inch Asus EEE computer, currently runs Windows XP but can easily be downgraded if you have the O.S. for $110 including shipping within the U.S. 48 states.
I also have a 14 inch Dual Core Compaq dv computer, still probably too powerful for your needs, I can post the exact specs if anyone´s interested. It works fine, it overheats if it is left running on a blanket or hot surface for a long time and it´s seen better days, but it is still quite workable, another $115 there including shipping.
These are just sitting around, no pressure but I am throwing the possibility out there for yu guys if you think you´ll need ém.
I think the EEE could be maded "old-fashioned" with a few usb to serial connectors.
I've got an IBM Thinkpad that's a Pentium 133 with Windows 98 and JFW 3.7 on it. I was gonna turn it into a DOS machine but never got around to it. It also doesn't come with a built-in modem. It seems to work fine, though I'm not 100% sure on the battery. It also makes a constant whistling sound, which made me nervous about the hard disk. That said, there aren't any noises coming from the disk itself. Again, I'd really recommend the Compaq Armada series if you can find one. Here are the specs on mine. Sorry, but it's not for sale. *smile*
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10012_div/10012_div.HTML
You can also put 98 on one of those and the drivers are available from the HP website. Everything is built-in and the speakers are out of this world. Not even the Mac has speakers like that!
I agree with everything that forreal said, except for one thing. Vista is not solid in the least bit.
Is win7 solid yet?
Yes, very much so.
No Vista is and was not solid, but I felt compeled to put it in there, due to it's better then 95, or 98 in todays world, so. And I agree 7 is solid. Still looking for that bloat ware though. *smile*
Most of the time, the bloatware comes when you buy a computer. They put extra stuff in there that you don't want. However, the ridiculously huge size of some Windows programs means that you need a bigger and bigger hard disk every time the os changes and sometimes, you need an entire new system because your cpu isn't fast enough for the new version of the os. I'm not even getting into the tremendous cost of most screenreaders (NVDA being a very nice and welcomed exception) that have to keep ontop of these changes, nor into how some readers have become bloated in themselves and full of features that the average user doesn't need. Windows is also proned to viruses, tons of crashes, slowness and unnecessary complication at times, though the latter is definitely not as true for Windows as for Leopard. Yes, DOS has all of these problems to one degree or another, but not to the extent that Windows does and viruses aren't really an issue anymore. . Also, Windows installs pieces of a program everywhere instead of in just one directory. So if the uninstaller, or installer for that matter, doesn't work you're stuck looking for bits of the program in all sorts of places. And if the program has a virus or spyware, it's much easier to spread due to the scattering of it's components. In DOS, if you don't like something, assuming it doesn't come with an uninstaller, you go into the directory, do a del*.*, go back to the root directory and do an rd on the one you just emptied. There are probably exceptions to that rule, but I haven't come across them yet.
Himm. Windows 95 was s "stable" that volumes were written on how to rectify deployment problems. To be fair, Osr2 was much better.
Windows 3.1 was so "wonderful" that Internet connectivity, or network connectivity of any kind for that matter, was nasty, and many programs GPF'ED as much as they ran. And your supposed "accessibility?" Who even heard of it then? You got what you got because ofthe dedication of of the screen reader manufacturers. Msaa came along in 1997, 2 z an add-on, and almost everything you take advantage of in technologies now, that you call accessibility, can more often than not be chalked up to more uniform and open standards.
This is starting to sound like the way modern conservatives do when they praise the fifties -- an era of big government regulation of labor among other things, while decrying big government regulation of labor. At best amusing, but at worst only using the information that's convenient and leaving the rest out. Hobeyond it if you want, sure. There's people who do that with cars, but nobody claims that a Model A, even when new parts are put in, is better than a modern vehicle, especially with the price of gas ...
As for programs storing files in multiple folders and places it is mainly for user experience sake and it is very sensible. Without this you can never click on a file and it opens in the correct program, because there needs to be a central database that tells the O.S. to open file with extension X in program Y. Thus there is no hope of visual menus or files that you can hit enter on and they open. You have to open the correct program and then open the file from within that program, something I felt annoyed and bothered with in my dos days., same with browsing, no files that are not html can really be opened unless the browser knows what the appropriate program would be and if it installed on your computer and where it is installed, else it has no idea how to open it.
Compare the convenience of copening a folder, doing ctrl-c to copy and then paste it into the other folder to writing out the copy command with the whole path references and file name, spelling it correctly and using the switches to indicate exactly what you want done with it.
And if you just remove a path or a program in dos you will most likely hve issues with path references, for instance in autoexec.bat or config system files that expect certain programs to reside in certain places.
The problem of completely installing and uninstalling programs as you put it is hugely exaggerated and the majority of uninstallation programs work just fine. Even if they don't work correctly it is simple to change the association of a file extension to a different program or manually delete the rest of the files.
The reason Apple does hardly ever have that problem is that Apple has more control or say over any program running on their O.S. and it is good for the user in some ways but can limit possibilities and selection and keep prices for Apple users higher.
It's not always the case but Apple does keep a fairly tight control over the stuff that runs on their computers, and that is their sselling point to, in a way.
Virus protection is exaggerated too. I have browsed tons of different web sites, even downloaded bunch of questionable files, with free anti virus and spyware removal software and the Windows Firewall I have kept my computer virus and spyware free for years and get very minimal interuptions from those programs i.e. Avira Anti Virus, Super Anti Spyware and Malwarebytes Anti Malware and the Windows Firewall.
ok... Compare Windows vista, and even 7, which is around 7 Gigs in size (I think around 7.5 for a freshly installed Windows 7 copy). Why?
Windows is becoming so overloaded with APIs and other dll files (mainly to keep compatibility), that most of it's codebase is now junk. They did a little code cleaning between Vista and 7, true, but to be honest Windows now a days is a huge pile of mess when it comes to components.
Windows 95? It is around 100 megs cleanly installed, even less if you don't install IE 5.5 in it and the TCP/IP stack. 98 isn't much different either, around 170 megs in a vmware environment.
While you could justify this with the advancements of larger hard-disks and perhaps the desire for compatibility across Windows Apps, I think it's still rediculus to have an OS be 8 gigs in size. Windows and Mac are the only two that are this much, but even a Mac can be stripped down a bit just by removing Alex which is around 700 megs.
Even on a 600 mHZ CPU I bet you could load Windows 98 faster than you could load Windows 7, or heck Vista. Let's hope I win the Ebay bid tonight on that del computer :)
I think part of the reason these O.S.s are so big is the compatibility needs, to include drivers for so many hardware and software manufacturers out of the box, also partly because the hardware is so powerful now that the coders can allow themselves to becomemore sloppy and not always optimize for space/time or fewest lines of code, they rather build extra components, reuse big libraries and the codebase becomes larger as a result. That second part is a bitof a guess, because object orientation, strictly speaking, is supposed to go the other way and save lines of code, but I think you may tend to include a bunch of libraries you don't need for every application, or need for only one thing, rather than rewriting it. When you then compile the app you may be compiling the same huge libraries in many different applications across the board.
I believe some linux systems are intelligent in that they detect your hardware and go online to fetch the corresponding software and drivers automatically, and I think that's the way to go for an O.S. rather than having everything crammed onto the installation image. Of course Google is going completely the other way, having a very light and thin user component but do the bulk of the storage and processing online. I am very curious to see if that'll change the world and where accessibility will come in.
Windows 95, 98 or 2K is infinitely more unstable than XP or 2007 (Vista was stable, I guess, but slow, I never liked it). I tried audio recording with 98 and it was infinitely frustrating, Sonar crashed instantly, multiple times on very few audio tracks. With better hardware and XP Pro we can record 32 audio tracks, add midi and the machine works flawlessly.
Of course some of it is hardware, FSB speed, memory and space, but a good deal of it is the O.S. and the software stability. You may not notice it or the performance difference in your every day apps, but when it comes to serious crunching Windows 7 with the ability to allow you to make use of 6 or 8gb of hardware memory makes a lot of difference.
There's always a huge cash cow tendency in the business. Just look at text books, they add chapters, change a few problems and bring out a new edition for a full price and force everyone to buy it. It is the same with software to an extent sadly, but there still is a huge performance and stability difference between, say, 98 and XP.
Good luck with the Dell.
Indeed. Let us know how it goes. 7gb is totally ridiculous for an os. Windows has made people lazy, and though I'm far more familiar with the user end of things than the programming one, I think it's safe to say, with your comments on sloppy coding, that this carelessness extends across the board. DOS makes people think. It keeps the mind fresh and alert and it gives the user more control because they're aware of where everything is. Granted, if you're really tired or need to get things done in a hurry, it can be a bit of a pain to have to type out everything. But today's versions offer a fully gui interface, for those who can see it, as well as keyboard shortcuts and shells with menus that automate many common tasks. So the ease of Windows that so many people talk about can be achieved in DOS as well with more stability and grater speed. I've often marveled how my laptop with the 486 cpu starts up in the blink of an eye whereas the Windows machine takes forever to do so. It's also okay, in many cases, to simply hit the power button when at the prompt rather than having to go through a shut down process or, if you use said button, to have to wait several minutes for your system to be scanned because you didn't shut down in the appropriate manner. As for accssibility, there's no doubting that things are more standard today. It goes without saying that this is a very good thing. But it's not the fault of the os. Rather, it was people's changing opinions that did it. I'm willing to bet, that if people wanted to, just for the sake of argument, they could make standards for DOS as well that would make things more accessible.
standards and the libraries you all claim to hate go hand in hand. Basically, once a manufacturer has a library that works, once there's a stable method to do things on the OS, then using the API to do it, rather than direct disk access or direct actions escaping the standard messaging threads is not only pointless, but causes the whole reason for modern computing - interoperability - to be negated. It's silly to assert that APIs are done because developers are crazy: that's like saying you should come up with a new grammar and vocabulary every time you wish to write either a new science or poetry textbook: silly. I too am interested in Google's solution and although the image is smaller, the online fetch for drivers, etc. is virtually that big. The same people that bitch about the size would be bitching if all the parts didn't work together in a modern sense, e.g. internet / email / network / office / screenreader interoperability all done by common libraries which are interfaces and functions / classes and, for Windows, the messaging that goes back and forth so memory, video, audio and other components are better managed. Modern interfaces use a lot more managed code not because we're lazy, but because people - you users - need to do more in less time. For the programs to be sufficiently smarter, their effort needs to be in the decision-making part of their tasks, not if there's enough memory and file handles to do a fopen. This has become silly ...
As to the uninstall programs, and the separation of program and user data, some of you have been belly-aching about:
Once upon a Windows 95 this was far less the case and belly-achers of your caliber were upset - justified at least in part - because user data (documents and settings or users) was not separated properly and updates to software would clobber old settings, uninstalls would wipe out all the user data with it. Sure, hard drive turds get left behind nowadays mostly in the user space, because the installation script doesn't know about the files that got written. Some of this is avoidable with careful construction but more often than not what's left behind is a setting, something multiple programs can use, some data written in the application by the user, etc. Sure, we need to make uninstall and install scripts smarter in some cases but that doesn't mean the concept is bad.
Oh and as for this DOS having GUI support? In order to have a decent GUI the user would have to act on what they see, basically Wildebrew said it and was a lot nicer about it so will leave it at that. As to boot time, you'll get that soon enough when we see solid-state nonmechanical drives, and you'll get it with power.
Oh one final thought: When people belly-ached about user and program data not being separate, I said I thought they were in part justified. By that I mean if they had just stopped there, they would have been wholly in the right. However, their belly-achery went as far as to say it was a conspiracy by the software people to stick it to them. Ironic isn't it? Now we don't do that and we got what you all are doing ... testament to the allure of said belly-aching ... have fun and careful not to let the facts get in the way. Belief systems are a lot more fun when that pest known as reality keeps its distance ...
lol I like all of your replies. I don't really criticise MS for making their Os's that large, as I understand why they do all that.
With a cloud OS like Google, I see the problem of dial-up users like myself with a 28.8 k modem. What are we gonna do? Sure, you might laugh it off and say "eh, most have cable", but think about it. Google's OS will run on cheap hardware (supposedly), because all the work will be done "in the cloud", or on the servers. This then makes it ideal for developing countries like Africa and places where computers are harder to come buy: Perhaps you could buy a Google netbook for $150 because it doesn't need as much processor speed, simply the ability to receive and process the chunks of data it gets.
As for the del laptop, the bid went up to $51 in the last 10 minutes, and I simply can't pay more than $50 for an old machine due to my budget constraints. So I suppose I'm still looking for the "perfect vintage" so to speak, that one computer which has a cd-drive/floppy drive (hopefully not inter-changeable, but it's ok if it is), at least 3 gigs of HDD space, and a 233 MHz CPU. USB ports would be nice, so I'd imagine that the computer in question would have to be made around the year 1998. I'm willing to pay anywhere between $30 and $50 for it :) Scratches and cracks are OK, even if the screen doesn't work, as long as it turns on and can boot up to Windows with sound, I'm good!
I criticise MS for stealing the idea of Tim Patterson, turning it into something wonderful, and then betraying their users because it had to steal ideas (all-be-it with their knowledge) from Apple just cause their os was prettier instead of working on improving the one that already existed. To me, Windows is Windows. Just some versions are a bit more tolerable than others. I'm using XP and it does what I need it to do for the most part. I wouldn't touch Vista with a ten foot pole, from all I've heard about it. I've heard good things about 7 but nothing that would make me rush out to install a copy. As forprograms, I think it's alot easier to just put the settings in files like autoexec.bat and config.sys so you could delete things from there. It's only a matter of a few lines for most programs. Yes, it does take a little studying, but that never killed anyone. And I'm fully ready to admit that I'm one of those who should crack open a book on it so I can work correctly with these important files without having to ask for help. Also, as someone who's interested in programming, I like the idea of building something separate and not having to worry about being obligated to hook it into a bunch of other programs.
To the poster who asked about dial-up:
That's a very good question, and largely relates to the U.So. market, as many third-world nations who are getting cheap hardware had no land-line systems in place -- or at least very few -- and so got their Internet wiring from Global Crossing and other large Fiber Optics carriers. But your question is still relevant, especially as it relates to the rural parts ofthe Us.So. Google's Os can be run offline and documents stored on the machine.
To the last poster, the difference between a file like an autoexec or a config sys and a database like a registry is that in said database you can tell the rest ofthe OS a lot about your data - anyone that reads your keys and values -- rather than just arbitrarily adding lines.
Also, an installation that added to a path string, on uninstall (wh DOS programs didn't have forthe most part) you would need to remove that section ofthe line and not touch anything that relates to other data on that line. That's only one step. Modern users expect a program to uninstall itself and, forthe most part, leave no problems behind. It's notable when problems occur, because it's quite rare, snippy comments about studying aside.
As to wanting to arbitrate your program's processes without notifying the OS that's your problem and your luxury, as any of us who write things others have to actually use would not continue to have jobs were that the case.
You may webl f9d a small group of like-m9d$ folks somewhere on this "co-dependent" object-oriented Internet, but without a common interface of some sort, I don't know how you'll communicate.
Actually I suppose it would be cheaper to install gsm/mobile/3g or 4g networks in developing countries rather than laying down the network of landlines and wires, in which case a type of wireless/cable connection would actually be installed rather than dial up. I am no expert but I did read it might be a much cheaper option than a land line, we only use land lines in the U.S. because they already exist and there is an element of security as wireless connections could fall victim to atmospheric problems, major sun spots and other activities that could disrupt communication. It is just a speculation though. There was a Swedish firm that developed a network where the actual phone handset acted as a wireless hot point and thus you could relay calls and net traffic to all available hand sets in the area, thus hugely reducing the number of hardware stations that needed to be installed. Of course this idea is not popular with makers of network equipment like Ericson, so I have not seen the idea develop yet, although I have not been following it directly.
To the "just change a few lines in AutoExec" comment, the poster is still asking questions about how to edit those files and it's been months now, so if she can't figure it out how could, say, a 60 year old grandmother who wants to use a computer to write to her kids. Also a wrongly edited file like that can mess up the computer so it can't function properly, and the goal of any programmer is to protect the user and not allow him/her to make changes that can damage the program, the O.S. or the computer (well, O.S. and the computer really being one and the same in this context, since it is pretty hard to damage the hardware, unless some sort of mega infinite loop with overheating comes into play).
Dos and, especially unix, had been around for decades and never caught on with the general public because the itnerface did not appeal to the average user, who couldn't care less about how things operate. Apple must be credited with the idea of the graphical user interface and making it attractive to the average user, thus starting a revolution. I don't know about the unethical business dealings of Microsoft, I am sure there are numerous books on the subject and probably rightly so, but Windows is a huge step forward from dos.
As for the ideaof not wanting to hook into any other program, it is clearly something a non programmer is saying. If you are to write all your own processes for displaying things on the screen, fetching things into memory, writing a file to disk, establishing an internet connection, checking email, using xml to sve user data, retrieving data from a database, calling a web service, take input from the keyboard .. well, without using existing code this is practically impossible and would take months, using a library like .net that is well tested and used everywhere any of these things can be written in a couple of hours, you can rely on the .net ibrary to do what it is supposed to in 99.9% of cases whereas your own code would take weeks to debug since some of these processes are awfully complex.
I've found one issue with .net in my use and I reported it to Microsoft and I believe it was fixed. It had to do with reading the file time stamp vs getting the file info from the FileSystem, there would be an hour difference if file was saved during daylight savings time months, i.e. the timestamp did not assume daylight savings.
It's not even really a bug as one might claim it should be that way and it is up to the programmer to make the necessary adjustments, as I did, but it was still not well documented.
Everything else I've done with .net libraries has worked flawlessly (well, once I fixed my code of course).
Standards are beautiful, html changed our lives probably more than any other piece of standardization in the last 20 years, gsm standards and web services are taking over for the most part, smart use of xml for system compatibility and instant messaging and so on.
Reading this topic and several others which have proceeded it, I'm really wondering how much of her opinions are based out of ignerence? She's clearly struggling with alot of concepts of programming, not to mension all the other issues I'm seeing that help to point her in often the wrong directions. her compus is going south east rather than north, so it seemes.In short, I'm really thinking she needs more education on many of these subjects.
I'll be the first to admit that I really do need to sit down and read a book or four on the subjects which interest me. This is something I plan on doing within the next month or so. For one thing, I need to get the basics of the os under my belt. That way I won't have to ask silly questions. I should also work with various screen readers to see which works the best for me, or if some work better than others under certain circumstances. , and I need to start my QuickBasic lessons. The problem has been that I still don't have my Compaq Armada back yet. My friend's been going through things and hasn't had the time to fix it. All I have is my KeyNote Gold laptop with a stripped down version of MS-DOS 6.21 and a strange keyboard that makes certain QuickBasic commands and other hotkeys for various programs impossible. Still, I could use this os to learn many essential things while I wait for the other laptop.
Huh, I thought you had something like 20 old PCs lying around, and any machine with Windows on it has dos, which in turn has Q Basic or can run it, so I don't understand how not having one laptop prevents you from learning.
At some point you have to stop asserting and asking and actually start understanding, from all the months of "Windows sucks, dos rules" propaganda you keep posting you seem to never have researched anything properly for yourself, perhaps it is time to change that.
Good luck.
I intend on doing that as part of my NewYear's resolution. My other old computers aren't currently available. I actually prefer QuickBasic over QBasic, since the former has it's own editor and compiler. I never thought of using it via command.com file under XP cause JFW forces me to use review mode to read the screen properly and then tends to read other unrelated stuff on the screen. But NVDA reads stuff from the prompt very nicely, so I might try that. I've got QB45.zip in my pc so I might just install it tomorrow. An advantage here would be that I can easily switch from the window with the tutorial to the editing window.
which you can't do in DOS proper ...
You can't do it in MS-DOS without a program like Carousel or Desqview. That said, it is possible and the latter package was popular for many years due to it's features. DR-DOS has a multitasker built right into the os. It can serve either as a task switcher on machines with less than a 80486 or as a true multitasker in machines with better cpus.
Instead of being hell bent on learning DOS why don't you actually give Linux a try? I could understand you using DOS if it was the only thing your 88 year old boyfriend knew how to help you with since computers were lucky to have 4 transistors on a chip when he was using them but based on the number of questions your asking I assume he doesn't know about old poorly maintained operating systems.
What does my boyfriend have to do with it? He's into electronics, not computers. And he's 64 not 88. lol Give us time man. Seriously though, I might play with Linux, just to see what it's like, but I really have no interest in using it as my primary os. It's far too alien and complicated to me. As a sidenote, since it's based off of Unix, it's just about as old as DOS, so your argument of age doesn't hold water.
And to think Tiffanitsa and the journalist would probably be a match made in heaven .. to bad he is too young for her... and not greek.
No, but we could probably be good friends. I always appreciate someone who's on the same page as me and he's got great views on tech.
um omg, you said that as though I wasn't ever on the Zone or something. hahahahahahahaha I'm watching :P First I already have a wonderful girlfriend named Laken (who isn't into technology but hey that's not a big deal for me lol). I'd have to agree, I can see Eleni's point of view with using Dos, probably because I also have my reasons for using old computers. I'm actually glad that I'm not weird in that sense, at least that others also love to use old stuff.
Lol in fact my computer teacher said he might be able to give me one of his p3 toughbooks or del computers he has lying around (he got them donated from progressive insurance). The problem with those is that the floppy drive is interswappable, meaning that I don't know how in the world I'll install Win95 off a cd when I have to boot it off a floppy. Ah well, that's a story for another day! :)
By the same argument that Linux is based on Unix so they are the same, well Windows is based on Dos, so they are the same.
Difference with Linux and Windows really is that they've become the OS of choice for developers and organizations in your life and are being continuously updated. Unix too, HP, Sun and other big manufacturers are spending millions of dollars updating Unix. Dos, however, as far as I am aware is hobby based only and not widely used by any organization as the primary O.S. since it is not stable enough and not enough apps are written for it plus, let's face it, these Windows are just damn convenient, being able to switch between them, browse, email, program, read help, run Excel and listen to music all at the same time. Perhaps the new dos offers something like that but at that point I'd be very doubtful that a screen reader is comptable with it. Screen readers tend to make a lot of assumptions about the operating system, drivers and so on, and work on those assumptions.
So, by all means, if you people are interested in playing with old systems, nothing wrong with that, but don't expect too much success.
ah ah ah. Unix and Linux use the same (similar) kernels. Windows and Dos, since the conception of Windows NT, are not the same. While Dos exists in Windows 2000/xp, it is only there for legacy purposes. The last OS to use dos as it's backbone was Windows ME, and that is far gone now. Windows NT-based Operating systems (yes, internally Windows 7 is just Windows nt patched up with changes that make it Windows 7) uses it's own kernel.
yay yay yay!
Eleni and others, I think
This great site
may be useful! There are a lot of old software programs on there, some even for ms-dos and linux :)
Though I question the legality of posting windows iso images (of Windows 9x and nt4) on there, it's a great website. (Though, Microsoft stopped supporting 9x/3.x in 2001)
Enjoy!
Thanks so much for the clarification on Windows. I knew that, at least to some degree, but it completely slipped my mind. Actually, MicroSoft has gone so far to give out a universal key to use when installing 98, since they've stopped supporting it. So I honestly doubt they'd mind if someone downloaded it. In any case, free is free, and so long as it doesn't have viruses and the like, I'm happy.
As for 95, would you perhaps be able to install it from a cd using an external cd rom drive that connects via a parallel port?
well, I used to have this one external cd drive called the backpack. It was so nice, because it also had a built in soundcard.
But mom threw it out and you have no idea how mad I was at her when she did! That was a very useful piece of equipment, as the soundcard could detect under Win95/98! and it connected through a paralell port, and had two (one male/one female) lpt ports on the back! I might consider buying one on ebay...
Wow! A drive with a built-in sound card? That's totally awesome! I have to check this out, especially if I can't find either generic DOS drivers for Soundblaster or specific ones for my Compaq. That sounds like a really nice device. I'd be mad as hell if my mother ever threw something like that out.
see what did i tell you folks .. a match made in heaven.
Lol Steve. Man, just give Linux a try, its much much, better then DOS. You can't really get meni viruses from Linux, and the mac is sort of like Linux. So if you have a mac, then you are somewhat using Linux. Like I'vee said in my previous posts,, some people never learn. DOS is out of date, just face it. Linux is being used for a lot of stuff now.
Someone forgot to tell Dell because they're still shipping laptops and desktops with FreeDOS, one of the modern versions of the os. And if Linux is anything like the Mac, I'm staying far away from it. I've had enough problems on this stupid machine to last me a lifetime!
Linux and Unux are different. The Mac is basedon BSD which is a flavor of Unix. I have no issues with my mac. Mind you, I'm not running Snow Leopard. I believe that the only Unix distros that are accessible besodes the Mac either Leopard and or Snow Leopard are OpenSolaris and Solaris. The only accessible Linux distros are Ubuntu with allot of tweaking, damn you PulseAudio, Gentoo either CLI or GNOME desktop Vinux, probably ArchLinux, for 32 bit systems only. Redhat's installer might be accessible, it might not be, unsure. If Ubuntu 10.04 takes out PUlseAudio and uses ALSA only, that should fix the Orca issues.
Linux and Unix are different. The Mac is based on BSD which is a flavor of
Unix. I have no issues with my mac. Mind you, I'm not running Snow Leopard.
I believe that the only Unix distros that are accessible besides the Mac
either Leopard and or Snow Leopard are OpenSolaris and Solaris 10. The only
accessible Linux distros are Ubuntu with allot of tweaking, damn you PulseAudio,
Gentoo either CLI or GNOME desktop Vinux, probably ArchLinux, for 32 bit
systems only. Redhat's installer might be accessible, it might not be, unsure. Redhat besides the installer seems pretty accessible, from what I've read online. If Ubuntu 10.04 takes out PulseAudio and uses ALSA only, that should fix
some of the Orca issues. KDE isn't accessible, at all, I don't think. LXDE has been talked about in another topic.
Here's the Dell info on FreeDos.
and you get Freedos on a CD with the system which has linux on it to begin with. I didn't read much I'm just on lunch break but the deal is you have to know what you're doing to set these up. Knowing what your doing generally operates in a perpendicular universe from writing on boards as to whether something will or won't be accessible.
to robozork,
I agree. Dell over all is a good brand. And it is one of the major brands that has Linux computers that are setup from the get go. If I'm not mistaken, they use Ubuntu as their Linux distro of choice. Which isn't a bad thing, as long as the user knows how to work out any of the Linux issues that come up. Since Ubuntu is based on Debian mostly, most of the commands for Debian will work for Ubuntu. There is also the added benifit that all of the hardware is recognized by Ubuntu. Whether Orca works on those systems is a good question, since I don't own one, I can't speak for that, but I will look around and see what opinions are out there for either Ubuntu 9.04 or 9.10. With a Mac you don't really have many of the accessibility issues, thanks to Apple controling it. And Voice Over being a good accessibility platform. Now if VLC (Video Lan Client) had all of its stuff labeled correctly, would be nice. With DOS even FreeDos you don't get those garentees, as this topic has shown. There aren't many screen readers for it. Windows screen readers, has been discussed many times, I will not reiterate what was said.
To get back on topic, I wonder if Dell makes/made palmtops either for some version of DOS or for Windows 95? If so, that might be a good place to start. I know that FreeDOS definitely works with screen readers, though I'm not sure to what degree. That said, the developers have included a screen reader compatibility switch for scrolling., so accessibility was clearly on their minds. The only catch is that, unlike with DR-DOS, everything comes in parts. There isn't a nice installer package, since it's built completely from scratch. . . I'm also not sure how often it's updated, though I know it's still being worked on.
The lil dark piggie, theirs no point in convincing her or the journalist about switching. We've done this several times as I've already said, and she could care less. To tif, I'll gladly take that mac off your hands as I love apple products, and I have no problems with my powerbook running leopard.
Well, a lot of what I want has already been done, and very nicely I might add.
http://www.basterfield.com/pc110/whatisit.htm
The only cons are the terrible battery life (1.5 hours with pcmcia card used and 3 without), the lack of hard drive (forcing me to use my cf cards) and the fact that it's only made in Japan and has a Japanese keyboard layout. The extremely small size (4.7 inches) might be an issue but I can't say without pulling out the measuring tape. The modem, while it is for voice, data and fax, is extremely slow. But I can always get a faster one. On the up side, keyboard, mic, speaker with soundblaster and modem are all built right in, it's got an 80486 (instead of 80186 like on the HP 200LX) and I could use one card slot for a 4gb card and one for my KeyNote Gold synth, so that I don't have to lug around an external. Maybe, there's a slightly better version of this, either from IBM or from another company. I only did a search for 80486 dos pda. I should try pentium, cause along with the faster speed, probably comes more options.
Found more info on the IBM Pc110.
http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/impact/f96/Projects/vchen/pc110.htm
Their size specifications are different from the ones at the first site and definitely more desirable (6.22'' by 4.45'' by 1.30'' and 1.58 lb. (s). I also found out that it can be fitted with a camera card. Hello youtube! The more I read about this machine, the more I'm loving it. It can be fitted with any DOS-compatible system, which most likely includes versions like Enhanced DR-DOS or FreeDOS and you can even install Windows 95 on it if you want. I'm still gonna look to see if a newer one is available, but I'm pretty much sold on this, if I can find it.
I have a few comments to make based on what I've read. Someone said the OP was against Linux, but for those of you willing, there's a lot to be said for it. While windows is becoming more bloated, you can cut down on a lot of that software that comes pre-loaded in your systems easily enough by just uninstalling it. A lot of what is making it bigger is the new libraries, old legacy code, images, etc etc. That said, I'm going to pimp Linux out a bit.
First, Linux is totally free (with the exception of redhat, which sucks anyway). The software is open source, and it's being developed and made better by people who want to make it so. This means that you *will* have old code sometimes, but for the most part it's going to stay relatively clean. The software is free, it's secure with a bit of work and amazingly easy to use once you've gotten used to it. You can easily put a linux distro like Debian or Slackware on a system P3 or higher, 128 MB ram is good, though a p4 or something better is nice if you plan to compile your programs. By reading through documentation and compiling your software, you get to control exactly what is on your system, how it runs, etc. Don't want your irc client to use ssl? That's great, because there are options to turn it off. If you want something a bit simpler to use, Debian is great due to it's package manager that they have built in. It basically allows you to download any package you want and quickly install it along with dependencies. If you would like to compile everything, and thus control what is or isn't on your system, I recommend Slackware. Both of these options have the ability to become secure and easy to use. While you may prefer an older OS, I'm going to tell you that older hardware is pointless, and your going to have more problems with it than anything else...
All this said, my msn/aim and that is in my profile. If anyone would like to get going with linux, there are multiple options, feel free to get in touch. I'd love to direct more people into the free software side of computing.
OK, and I didn't read far enough down to scream. Linux *is* Unix. It's built off of the same thing. Hell, windows uses unix-like (posix) standards. Unix is an OS that a lot of really really big servers run off of, due to it's security and stability. Linux is a spinoff of that, using the same ideas. On the otherhand, there is BSD which is another really secure OS, though a lot harder than linux to set up. OSX is built off of a BSD and Mach kernel.
Did you read far enough to find out about the palmtop that I want, which ws actually the topic of this post before we all went nuts? lol As for old hardware, it should work fine, provided it's in good condition, that you have the drivers and that your computer has the right ports/connections for it.
The main problem with adaptive hardware is finding it! We seriously need a flee market or something for this stuff. Either it's all thrown out or the people who have it are guarding it with dear life.
I found it! I found it!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260535085986&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=M*S%3F&GUID=e23e80f21250a0b58fb76a97ff56ba43&itemid=260535085986&ff4=263602_263622
The only problem is that the battery is dead and it doesn't come with any accessories. Still, it's in great working condition. I also found a docking station for it
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-PC110-Docking-Bay-NEW-FS_W0QQitemZ230354294383QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptop_Docking_Stations?hash=item35a22f966f#ht_500wt_751
though they don't really describe it, so I'm not sure exactly what it does. I found a post on a forum that says that there's one model of the computer, YDW, with 20MB RAM,, which is plenty to get me started. But the one on ebay only has 8. Still, considering how rare these are, I might want to seriously consider getting it. I also learned that the floppy drive's model number is (Y99,800) and the lithium battery )is Y8,000. So I can now look for accessories by part number, which is really helpful. I'm wondering if it'll work with a generic floppy drive. If not, then I'll need to buy a pcmcia card adapter and install my screen reader through my cf card. Ah well. $250, or even $349, if I buy the station, is still better than $650 at the moment.
Well, I wish you the best of luck on whatever the heck you are going to do. I'm right now looking at GRML2USB to install GRML on my jump drive on my mac, so I can take it and put it on my dell lattitude to get gnome the way I'd like it. Costs me nothing but the time it takes to download the .iso. But you don't want to use linux and that if perfectly fine. Good luck with your dos thing.
DOS itself costs nothing. I just need the computer to put it on. *smile* And I don't know why The Zone won't put line breaks in between links and text. I certainly hit return before and after writing the sites out.
Ah yes, I can see how an outdated computer with a dead battery for $250 (plus shipping?) is a great buy, add a docking station, floppy drive and new battery and you wil probably have a dos compute for $450 you are not even sure will run your screen reader (can you be sure your screen reader will run on these fancy versions of dos, they may have changed so much the screen readers do not communicate with them).
If you need to bring this to class or work and open a Word document hand out, go online for the course web page that runs Java script, get an excel spreadsheet to look at or simply want to play a song on the computer .. you most likely can't.
I stick with a sub $200 netbook that does all of these things and I don't have to find the floppy drive for it.
Good luck
I'd love a more modern machine but doubt I could find one that meets so many of my needs, unless I were to have one custom made. Given this one's limitations, the idea is still in my mind. The advantage here is that it is a working machine, has support groups online, and we know all the parts are compatible with DOS because it was built to work with that operating system. As was pointed out, not by me but by those more knowledgeable, it might be hit or miss trying to do this from scratch. In any case, the only thing I'd really have to get after the palmtop is the battery. The rest can wait. I also just remembered that I have an external floppy drive that came with my Braille Note and that works through a pcmcia slot, so that might work, assuming that I could find it. I have the one from Blazie too, but doubt I could use it, since it's probably very proprietary. Even if my screen reader doesn't work with the newer versions, which it should, since at least one is close to 100% compatible with MS-DOS, the palmtop already has the MS version built in. So I can always use that with old and new software. It'll just be a bit more limited than I'd like. I have MS Word 5.5 and there are converters for documents made using more modern versions. The same thing holds true for XL documents, which I never use in any case. I don't work or attend school, but java and screen readers could pose a problem. I'd need to see if NetTamer can be run from a nondialup connection, what it can and can't handle and if there are any more modern browsers that work with screenreaders. That said, I know of someone who's blind and who uses MS-DOS on a daily basis, so there must be some work-around for going online. The amount of software for playing music, whether it be from cds, wav files, mp3s or midis, is ridiculous. I just found a page on it the other day. If I can't find a piece of software that I can work with for that, then I've got a serious problem. loll
Seriously. Take your post apart piece by piece, and look at how much crap you have to do. I'm using a powerbook G4, and I can do all of that with absolutely no problem. I am going to be putting windows7 on my lattitude, and still be able to do all of what you want to do in Dos with no problem. Look at what you have to go quote look for, and find out if it works. It just seems overly complicated to me. Wild Brew, I agree with your post completely.
It'll all be worth it once everything is finally in place. sometimes, you have to work for what you want. *smile*
I found some Windows 95 machines that were far cheaper, mostly under $100, that I might consider. But I need to look them up and see if I can find drivers for them and to learn if they meet enough of my specifications to be worth it. That would be nice though, a cheap machine that's even more powerful than the expensive ones.
I found something even better than the IBM PC110 and at a fraction of the price. It's the Toshiba Libretto 100C. They also have 110 and above as well as models below the 100. . The specs on this one far outweigh the PC110. I found some here and the rest are on the second link.
http://www.colinfparsons.btinternet.co.uk/twinp/colhome/Libretto/libret100.htm
It's got a 7.1 inch, a perfect size, 32mb ram, a 2.1gb hard disk, built-in microphone, speaker and socket, floppy, and two pcmcia card slots. There's also a mini port replicator for parallel, rs-232, monitor, keyboard and mouse ports, or an enhanced port replicator for parallel and via ports, mouse and keyboard ps/2 ports a usb port and an extra type iii card slot. I'm not sure, judging by the description, if the mini one is always included or if that's optional. I actually not too sure what a port replicator is or how it connects to a device. In any case, the processor speed is 166 mhz. The battery life is at least three hours, which, while not perfect, is still better than one and a half. Best of all, though it's a Windows 95/98 machine, it's compatible with MS-DOS and even later versions of Windows, at least, according to this site.
http://www.josephn.net/toshiba_libretto_110ct
So I'm assuming that DR-DOS will play nicely with it too. For $37, it's totally worth it. That said, here's the actual link. There are only four days left on it, so I need to decide pretty quickly.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Toshiba-Libretto-100CT_W0QQitemZ140375758696QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item20af0c1768#ht_1002wt_962
For those of you who can see well enough, does it look like it's in good condition? I'll definitely e-mail the seller to make sure it's working, that it has a battery and charger etc, but there's no point if it looks like a mess.
The life of a hobbyist. t You have taken one suggestion and gotten searching. Ever thought about going in to say Comp USA or other computer repair shops, or doing a search for them in your area then calling them and learning if they have what you want, or if there is another hobbyist that will be willing to try your build?
Hmm, no, I haven't. Everyone kept discouraging me and made it sound as if it would be hugely expensive or near impossible to do it. I can't speak for the cost of a custom job, since I only got that $650 quote, but at least I know now that it's pretty much been done. This one seems to meet most of my needs, except the built-in serial and parallel (though the port replicator takes care of that) and the modem (though that was optional to begin with and I'll probably go wireless in any case). The battery life isn't the greatest, but maybe it can't be with a pentium. I never even thought of that. Still, the sound card doesn't even need a driver, the speed and size are great, it's got the keyboard, microphone and speaker built right in and even a floppy drive, which might come in handy for programs that won't install correctly from a cf card. Now I just need to make sure that this one is in good working order and has it's battery, adapter etc. No use in having such a good machine if it doesn't work. lol That price seriously scares me and I hope I won't get scammed. But now that I'm pretty sure what I want, I can relax and actually start learning the os! haha
Okay, I finally figured out what's been going on here. For some weird reason, VoiceOver isn't reading bay pages properly when I view them with Safari. For example, it'll read the main things in lists about the computers ram, hard disk, screen size etc, but it won't read the descriptions that the sellers write about them unless I copy the page into Text Edit. Anyway, I found a working Libretto 110CT here
http://cgi.ebay.com/Working-Toshiba-Libretto-110CT-w-dock-floppy-extras_W0QQitemZ190364407561QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item2c529a5709#ht_500wt_977
So if I can't get the 100, I'll try for this one. I'm kind of annoyed, cause the seller of the 100, while providing good info on how to install Linux, for those who wish to do so, didn't write about his actual machine. The 110's owner said that the batteries don't hold a charge, but hopefully, I can find those without too much of a problem if I go with that one. The nice thing there is that it's got 64mb of ram, which is the max on these machines, and for the MS version of DOS if I'm not mistaken.
I think both of the ones I was watching are gone but that's okay. This 100CT works, plus comes with Port Expander (PS/2, serial, parallel, video), an ethernet card with installed driver and removable dongle, two serial-to-PS/2 adapters, three batteries, two power adapters, power cord, four replacement pointer pads and Windows 98 preinstalled with ethernet card and drivers to get on the net.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Toshiba-Libretto-100-sub-notebook_W0QQitemZ120520283782QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item1c0f919686
To ask for more under $100 would be a fool's game.
Firstly, the librettoes go for quite a bit considdering what they are, so if your going to bid, be prepared for the price to shoot up in the last few minutes.
Secondly, the soundcard does need drivers - everything does - and I'm 99% sure that the floppy drive isn't built in.
At the end of the day, I still stand by my original quoat; if you read my second post, you'll see that I was actually going to base your machine around a libretto.
You seem uncapable of doing your own research. For example, when we were talking about your optiplex on msn, it seemed to come as a bit of a shock to you that there wern't even windows 95 drivers for its components, let alone dos ones. I don't think you understand the rediculessly large amount of research that would have to be done before you get a working machine that fits your requirements. Just assuming that drivers will exist for the hardware that your after is very silly and assuming that your screenreader will work with enhanced drd is also pretty silly. If your not going to get something from me, at the very least, fire up a vm in what ever box your using at the moment, have someone with eyes come round and install the os and screenreader and see if it works before you buy anything.
Have fun trying to find someone who'll do it cheaper than me; I'm sure that lots of people have a fairly old pI laptop tucked away that they'd probably give you, but if you go it alone or with this person who you claim knows lodes about electronics but must have had your compaq for the best part of 6 months now, you'll fail badly. At the end of the day, your board posts for the past year or so have demonstrated to us anyway that you have a tiny fraction of the knolige and motivation that would be required to make this work.
But what ever floats your boat I guess.
Actually, I posted a link earlier which explains that most of the hardware (with the exception of the inferred port) is fully DOS-compatible, including the sound card, which doesn't need drivers for that os, since it works out of the box. That didn't come rom me, but from an owner of the machine who's clearly tried it out. Even if the floppy drive isn't built in, I'll mostly be using my cf card. In the cases where a floppy drive are truly necessary, I can always use an external. The person who's been working on my Compaq did a lot of research on the os to find drivers and whatnot and also had some family problems, including a few deaths, so i can't exactly tell him to hurry up. But the Acer Aspire One should be done by next week and the Compaq will hopefully follow soon after that, maybe even by that point. I think that your idea of trying the os on a virtual machine is a good one, though I have no clue how to use vas and there's also the problem of having the virtual os recognize my nonvirtual serial port and synthesizer. I know we got it EDRD running off a floppy with the basic three files and VocalEyes was able to handle it, but I'm not sure about the rest. Still, if this os doesn't work, there's always FreeDOS, and if that one doesn't, then MS-DOS will work for sure. I'm very interested in the machine that you might build for me, but at the moment, the price is way out of my range. I might have my dream machine built by you in the future, but for now, this is a nice cheap way to get my feet wet so to speak. I also didn't lose site of the fact that you mentioned that you had a Libretto. You actually never said which one. Maybe, it's the one I'm seeking? If so, do you have extras and such for it. If not, is the ram under 64mb and the hard disk under 7gb? How is the keyboard on it as far as size? If it's newer but follows the older models, it's 7.1 in. but that doesn't tell me much. Are the keys small like on the Language Master or a bit larger?
Wow! Did I write that last post? Hello grammar? Anyway, it seems that the other two are still up after all, but only one of those still interest me. So now I've gotta decide whether to go for the 100CT with the extra batteries, the port expander etc or the 110CT with the batteries that don't hold a charge (bios battery appears to be dead) but with a floppy drive and docking cradle. The advantage of the 110 is that it runs at 233 mhz instead of 166 mhz and has a 4gb instead of a 2gb hard disk. Both machines are working, and I know where to get batteries and port replicators so could get the extras for either one. Guess ebay will be the judge. The 110's still got 0 bids but fthere's four days left on it. The 110's got 4 bids with a little over one day.
I'm so stupid! I didn't bid on the one I wanted cause I wanted to wait the last minute. Somehow, I missed it and it ended and was sold, with one bid, for $49.95! !! Now I've gotta find another one. Today's not my day.
Sound cards *always* need drivers in DOS to handle everything including holding the relevant IRQ and accessing the relevant DMA channel(s). Whoever told you no drivers are needed doesn't know what they're talking about.
DOS has no embedded sound support, unless you count beeps from the PC speaker.
Unless an Os contains direct access to a device (your video, your hard drive, etc.) you need drivers in order to communicate with it.
The reason you don't use a driver for video in DOS is it uses the BIOS access and the same is true with the hard disk controller / keyboard.
Even copious amounts of booze wouldn't compensate for / assuage the nastiness associated with all the headaches you're in for.
As your board posts have illuminated, this stuff's not for beginners. Most of the current computer user population did not, and wouldn't have, use computers in the DOS days ... your posts prove it
Oh, herposts confirmed that a long time ago. It's been 6 to 8 months now since the DR Dos talk started, yet she has not even isntalled it, tested it with a screen reader, nor does she have the faintest idea how,or if, it works.
A person who bought a Windows or Mac would've turned it off and be surfing, checking email, playing movies and audio files within a week at most.
Dos never got to the masses for a reason.
I found the information on the drivers here.
http://www.josephn.net/toshiba_libretto_110ct
"My Libretto 110CT is a very well supported device for MS-DOS. Everything works except the IRDA (Infra-Red Port). The sound works great without any drivers required, as it emulates a SoundBlaster card, meaning most games/applications can already use it. PCMCIA devices work well, and SystemSoft's Cardworks works well with the PCMCIA controller. The graphics chip (NeoMagic), also seems to have a good VESA BIOS, so it is easy to play games (such as Quake), on the LCD screen's supported resolution."
But further down, he gives a link for configuring sound under DOS.
http://forum.josephn.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10
The thing is that they're talking about using DOS under Windows 95 (98 apparently doesn't have the same drivers to emulate the sound blaster). In any case, that was very misleading. Still, I'm assuming that it does have some kind of sound card installed, and if it really is a sound blaster, then it probably will work in MS or DR-DOS with the proper drivers. I wonder about the other stuff. If so, then it's still worth getting. If not, then there might be another small and similar computer out there that I can buy. I just went with this one because it works so well with my os and meets most of my specifications. I did find references to a general pcmcia driver called Soft Card, so at least I know that one's compatible. I think computers today have created alot of general laziness. I'll be the first to say I embraced it whole-heartedly. We need to start thinking again as a society and as individuals.
Well, but do we need to think about how we check our email, we think a lot as society and machines have taken some of the every-day, dull and repetative tasks out of life, and it is up to us to use our brains productively with other stuff.
In order to advance we also need information, to contact other people, to write essays, to read things . for all of these things we need a functiona computer, not one that may be has a driver that might work with program x under program Y and you may even install program Z on it .. these are useless to everyone.
You may be interested in this for your own reasons and you feel this makes you think .. although I have not seen much speculation on your part, just questions (no offense meant, but you really have not done your research on this, if you had you had, tested a lot of things by now, but you just keep asking and copying and pasting other people's opinions without any back up .. so I can't see you are thinking particularly hard about this). Other people would, and should, concentrate on other things, math, art, recording sound or music or photography .. not setting up an old fashioned computer to do it in an inferior way to what modern computers can do.
Mind you, dos has its uses, I have never said otherwise, running batch scripts or console programs that do repetative tasks, with Windows scheduler, is one use, doing a massive batch convertion or copying of files meeting a certain pattern criteria another. But what you are trying to do is better achieved through a modern gui, faster using modern browsers and clients, and your amount of questions and lack of success alone, makes that clear to anyone.
This may be a hobby, but never can you claim this is an easier, more user friendly, faster or better way of doing things than a Windows xp, 7 or even Vista machine can offer.
I think it will be, once I get things set up. The problem is with me and my machines, not with the operating system. Granted, if someone were to give me a fully configured DOS system tomorrow, I'd still have to learn, and would take the time to do so. But things are always easier once you've worked with them for a bit, and unfortunately, I have no machines available on which to really test things. I've got my XP desktop, my Macbook and my KeyNote. All the other computers are either put away or being fixed. I'd love to be able to pull out one right now so I can experiment and learn some things on my own.
Sweet heart! Although I applaud your willingness to play with tech, do you honestly believe Dos will work a flawlessly as newer Operating systems even if you had the perfect setup? I use Dos at work for years, and I tell you Windows, and Mac setups are far better. It's like taking an 48 Ford and expecting it to run like a 2010 Ford, it's fun to drive, but just isn't reliable. If Dos were that good Microsoft would be updating Dos, and we'd have Dos 7 instead of Windows. I do love your stick to my guns though. You go girl!
Well, I'm clearly not the only one using it if it's own fans are updating it, if certain companies still sell products that support it (Addonics for one),, if other companies (Dell) still offer the choice to have it on their systems (support asside, the option is still there) and if modern drivers and programs are still being written for it. I've heard embedded DOS is very popular in certain types of machines and the regular versions are used alot in the medical field and in business. Of course it has it's problems, but that can be said for any operating system.
Btw, thanks for the compliments. They're much appreciated.
Again, some people never learn... Just use Linux.
We can say that until we're blue in the face, she'll never do it.
Okay then the perfect setup for Dos. You say Dell will put Dos on a new computer for you right? The lowest priced one is around $250, no monitor you can use the one you have for assistants. Next I'd contact freedom Scientific and get a copy or what Jaws 4.5, or maybe 3.0? I think 4.5 was windows based, and I'd be willing to bet you could have the version you need free. Now your machine is reliable, not like the one you are wishing to find here, because it have to be used, and well as you have noted expensive, and no sure way to know if it will work past the time you unpack it from it box. Your new machine is also compatible with all new hardware, so no problems connecting it, to devices. Now all you need do is locate the programs you want, and you can learn if they are speech compatible, but that is where the trouble starts, or ends so to speak. *smile* I'm going to do some checking on Dell. I did not know they'd set you up with Dos. Also a plus would be a new machine from Dell would come with some tech support in the way of drivers, programs you might require for applications, and such things for a while. You could call them and pick their brains for the information you'll be after. I'm serious, not teasing you at all. I'd truly like to see you succeed so that you can either correct us all on this board, or find that we are dcorrect in our thinking and that your setup would simply be a toy to fool around with, but not much for productivity. You'll get on that XP and tell us all about it. *smile*
Come on make the calls and let me know.
As has been said on this board, Dell sells machines with FreeDOS installed. However, they don't support them. At least, not to my knowledge. But I do know that there is a list out there for FreeDOS users, as well as the general list for users of various flavours of the os. The one I'm actually interested in, for now at least, is Enhanced DR-DOS, because it's updated much more frequently. Providing that I could find a machine with DR-DOS 7.2 on it, I can then install the patches. In any case, I doubt that a new machine would have a serial port or a pcmcia card slot and I'd need one or the other for use with a synthesizer. Still, I'll check out those machines, just to see what they have. They might surprise me. I have JFW 3.3, 3.7 and 4.02 and 4.5. All are for Windows. Even 2.0 is for Windows 3.1. (and it can be found on the 3.3 cd). However, JAWS for DOS is available as a free download from the Freedom Scientific site.
http://www.freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/JAWS-previous-downloads.asp
A new machine would have a serial port. If Dell will install Dos get them to install the version you want, and all Dell machines come with tech support if new. Make the call. *smile* You've got Jaws free already, so now you only need the box.
I need to see if they do laptops, cause that's what I'm really after. I didn't know that new machines have rs-232 ports. Does that go for parallel too?
Yep, but a laptop with more ports will be more money, and expense would be a factor right? A mini tower desktop would do nicely, and you'll be able to use it after your experiment. Now a laptop with these ports would probably run up to 5 or 6 hundred, so.
I already have two XP desktops, so if this didn't work out, I'd be left with an extra and no laptop other than my Macbook.
DOS is soooooooooooo olld! damn it. DOS is never going to work for you, just face it.
Windows and Linux are old too, if you wanna look at it that way, and people still use them.
Talk about being stubborn!
All of you who are trying to help her, will it do any good?
Doesn't sound like it!
Good luck!
True enough. I say if you want to see if it works, and can get your setup go for it. The laptop can be configured the way you want it's just going to be more costly, but one at that price range would be a great computer to have with, or without Dos. You could do a test, and if it all works then you got it going on, but I think not, or not as well as you think and you'll have more limitations then you want, but go for it. We now have the means, so. *smile*
you know I was thinking more. Had to much time on my hands this morning. haha.
Okay you already have 2 desktops right? If you want to get setup why not simply have one of the computers changed to Dos? Okay secondly. You started this board because you wanted to know how much the computer described would cost, and as you learned it would be expensive, and probably not even work, or not long, so here is my question. Does your perfect setup have to be on an Vintage computer, a 3 or 486, and the whole thing, or are you just after something portable that you can run MS Dos on? If I just wanted MS Dos, and I have did some searching and learned it was upgraded to version 5.0 in 2000 I'd get the software, and have one of my computers changed over. That is the cheapest way. www.business.com seems to have such software, or Microsoft for sure should be able to set you up if you don't have it over Dell. Now if it's the laptop thing then we are back to Dell. They can handle it for you.
Okay rambling over.
Let me know.
I would prefer a laptop, and if I'm gonna spend that kind of money to have it custom-made, I want high quality parts. I know that older machines at least had those. No, it definitely doesn't have to be a 486. I'd actually like a Pentium 1 or 2. It's the ports and the like that I'm really after, and the size. I could go a bit above 10 in. but would really not like 12 or 13 inches if I can help it. I don't want something that's really heavy and don't like all that extra space that's taken up by a palmrest, a trackpad etc on many modern machines. I probably could set up DOS on one of the desktops, once I get it out of storage. I'm just hoping it's not a p4 or something,, since I'd probably need to use the slow-down utility to make the clock run at a more comfortable speed, at least for some of the older programs. Also, it doesn't have a pcmcia slot, so I can't use my KeyNote Gold synth. I'm stuck using either an Echo GP (yuck) via the serial port or buying a Doubletalk. I'd also have to have someone partition the hard drive, since it's way more than 7gb and probably reduce the ram to 64mb. Then, I'd need to see about having someone install a DOS-compatible wireless card internally, since, again, there's no pcmcia slot. USB does work under DOS, but only for storage devices.
My god. DOS isn't really supported anymore. A lot of drivers for dos don't work right, like mouse drivers, keyboard drivers and shit like that.
Why are there all sorts of pages out there with tons of DOS drivers for different things, and new drivers being created for modern tech?
Then your back to my first idea Dell. You'll get the machine you need, but a bit pricey. Now about quality parts I think you'd be much hap-pier with working parts right? Anteaques are expensive hobbies, so you'll have to pay to get your Dos working. So make the call. We are ready?
As soon as I find the money. I could afford $200, maybe $300, with family's help, but no more. Hopefully, I can sell a few things (my embosser, my colour identifier and my money identifier) and get some that way. This is why, for now, I was looking for a machine that already existed. But it goes without saying that a custom-made machine would be the best, so long as I don't get cheap Chinese/etc parts.
250 for that mini tower. *smile*
Again, looking for a laptop.
I am always amused by these posts. To summarize, Tiff, you have no idea whether DR dos or some other modern flavor of dos will both work with some type of screen reading software as well as working with the necessary drivers you need e.g. for YouTube, yet you are going to go buy an expensive dos laptop before you even test it out, whilst you have XP machine sitting around, or at a friend's, or something. You've been asking about this for months and nothing has come out of it.
Why in the world wouldn't you try to set the dos systems up on one of these XP machines you got with your equipment to see if it works before forking out money on some sort of a dos laptop. The hardware is not going to determine whether it works, the software will. You could've tested this out on a virtual machine months ago. Go do a little research before you ask your family to donate money to the old dos computer that may never work but will cost you more than any new xp or Windows 7 laptop you care to imagine fund.
It stands to reason, and why haven't you tested this yet?
To wildebrew:
The DOS laptops, the ones that already exist, are very cheap. Some are well under $200, some even under $100. So it's just a matter of which one I want. I can't try it on the netbook because it doesn't have any of the ports that I need. The desktop does and I might take you up on that suggestion as soon as it's brought up here to my new apartment. But even if the new flavours don't work, for whatever reason, I can still use MS-DOS. So no matter how you look at it, it'll be good for me to get a laptop that's better than the one I have now for this system, which is my KeyNote Gold. Unfortunately, due to the fact that my netbook's hard disk is shot, or whatever, I might have to get an XP laptop first, unless I can find my XP cd and install it on the Mac. So I might wind up using my Compaq Armada 1750 for awhile. It weighs a ton and is very large, but it has everything imaginable onboard, so is good for testing.
To forreel
I guess the advantage to getting a desktop would be that I could have a 3.5 floppy drive and a 5.25 one that I could use to convert all my programs and stuff to 3.5. But I'm beginning to wonder if Dell or another major company could even meet my hardware requirements, given the technology involved. The serial and parallel ports are probably doable, but Pentium 2 or 3, no more than 64mb of ram a hard disk of no more than 7gb, , a compatible SoundBlaster or other sound card and, ideally, a form factor that can easily fit on a desk at least and not have to go on the floor? And can they even get a pcmcia slot in there? I've never seen a desktop with one. Though I could probably get away with using my Braille Blazer or BrailleNote as a synth, since I wouldn't have to worry about portability.
Correction. that should read Pentium or Pentium 2. I highly doubt I'd need to go to a 3, since the os is very fast. I was thinking of my XP dilemma with 3/4/Celleron/etc.
loll From January 2010, talking about the Lenovo ThinkPad X100e, which was just launched at the time of this writing:
"OS: Windows XP Home, 7 Starter, 7 Home Basic, 7 Home Premium, 7 Professional, or DOS"
http://www.wirefresh.com/lenovo-launches-thinkpad-x100e-ultraportable-with-11-6-screen/)
the ports/slots that I like aren't there and neither is a replicator option for them, The price is way too high for me with them lacking ($400 at the lowest and I don't trust IBM since they sold to Lenovo. But it just goes to show that yes, the option to have DOS preinstalled on machines still exists in 2010. As for my quest, I'm deciding on whether to go for a Toshiba Libretto, though I've heard that the keyboard is really small), a Toshiba Portege a Toshiba Tecra, an older Sony VAIO, an IBM Thinkpad or possibly a newer Compaq Armada (M300) which has almost all the features of mine but which is three inches smaller and 5 lbs. lighter. I just wish that I could find this kind of perfect machine with everything that would work well with XP. Some have it preinstalled but they're way to slow to properly handle it.
The advantage with the Compaq Armadas is that, as with the Librettos, they have DOS drivers. I didn't check out the others.
Okay I need to correct a few things, because I've been stringing this along for a while to see what you would say. First rmember MS Dos was upgraded in 2000 and you are correct used. My reason for suggesting the desktop is it is a cheap way to have a test bed so you can learn something. My suggestion to convert one of your computers to Dos is simply to save your money, and all the changes you suggest do not need changing, clock speed and that sort of thing. Thes new machine will be a updated machine and will run Dos just like any machine you have now. Here is your problem. You will have a difficult time using Dos due to screen readers. Screen readers have not support Dos, only windows, and open source programs, so you'll get a little use from your experement, but you'll not be able to use any mchine productively. You can get a floppy drive for something like 10 dollars, and external. Sound cards will work fine with Dos, so any will do. Dos simply is for people who have internal system that use it not mainstream computing. Again I suggest some reading, study, and I applaud your stick to it, but you really need to study your subject, and the cheapest test bed, like your current computers is your best learning tool unless you just have the money to put in to any old or new computer that later can be productively used, or kept Dos and use to fool around with. I say get it setup, learn about it, but spend as less as possible if you really are looking for something you can use mainstream, because Dos will not get you there.
I have also noted you are asking questions about XP. XP Pro or Home will support all software rated XP. There is no differents as far as that goes. A small amount of reading on Microsoft's site would have given you that info. Read my friend. Find a computer shop in your area that repairs things and talk with the tech. Most of all keep your stick to it.
Peace.
I've actually heard that the last stand-alone Version of MS-DOS was 6.23. I know that there's a 7, but I was under the impression that this requires Windows to work. I must check this out. Here it is, though I've heard it from many other sources too.
Taken from:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_last_version_of_MS-DOS
"The last standalone version of MS-DOS is 6.22. A slightly upgraded version, MS-DOS 7, was included with Windows 95 and 98. The last version number is MS-DOS 8, which was a crippled version included with Windows ME, 2000, XP, and Vista."
So basically, I'm stuck with 6.22 if I go the MicroSoft route. While I may be able to use DOS on a fully modern machine, I would still need to cut the ram down to 64mb (since this is a 16 bit os) and the hard drive to about 7gb (Enhanced DR-DOS can handle it on it's own, but I think MS-DOS needs outside utilities for such a large drive). I'd also need to use either the built-in utility to slow down the clock in Enhanced DR-DOS, or a program like Mo'slo with MS-DOS, if I intend on using certain older programs. But, of course, this isn't true all of the time. Not all modern sound cards are supported under DOS. That said, there are probably some drivers out there for a few, either made by the manufacturers or made by users. JAWS for DOS, VocalEyes, Tiny Talk Provox and ASAP are several screen readers specifically designed to work with DOS. So they definitely exist. Now as to whether or not they could handle modern programs and modern versions of the OS, I can't say. I know that Provox has been made open source, so theoretically, if someone wanted to try and update it to make it more compatible, they could.
I really wasn't sure whether I should make a new topic or put this here, but figured I might as well do the latter. I've decided that a desktop isn't out of the question. While I'd really prefer a laptop, it may be cheaper and easier to get a desktop right now. Plus, it could afford me more options. So with that in mind, here are my new specs. They've really changed from the first post but I think these will be final. As then, dbd means determined by designer. Specifications are for both types of machine unless stated otherwise. Asterisks mean the specification is essential. If one of you thinks you could make this, please let me know or at least tell me how much you think it will cost. I'll be e-mailing some custom computer places starting on Monday for their estimates..
Specifications
Form Factor
laptop: under 12.1 inches (no more than 14.1)
desktop: small/able to fit on desk (tower if possible)
Weight
Laptop: * No more than 7 lb. The lighter the better.
desktop: whatever is reasonable for size
hard disk capacity
No more than 5gb and no less than 100mb if there's no partition. Willing to accept a partition of a single 10gb drive split into two 5gb drives or two separate internal drives if desktop.
Ram
No more than 64mb and no les than 32mb.
cpu
No less than 100mhz and no more than 500mhz. (While I don't think it would hurt I also don't think it's necessary to go above that.)
Input
Laptop * built-in keyboard (84 keys or more I never use the numpad if that helps.)
Desktop: Enhanced 101 keyboard (already owned but a new one is fine so long as it connects via a ps/2 port)
Laptop: I'd prefer no touchscreen, stylus, trackpad or mouse buttons, though those can be disabled in the case of a preexisting machine.
Media
Desktop: *1 3.5 inch (high-density 1.44mb,, LS240 or HiFD 200mb) floppy 1 750mb zip drive *1 5.25 inch high dencity floppy, *1 cd rom
Laptop: *1 3.5 inch floppy or superdisk (see above) 1 cd rom
Connectivity
*1 standard rs-232 serial port
Laptop: *1 pcmcia slot (2 strongly preferred. If there's no serial port, then there must be at least one pcmcia card slot and one compact flash slot or two pcmcia slots. If there's a serial port then one slot of either kind will suffice.)
*1 bidirectional parallel port (2 if possible on desktop)
*1 ps/2 port (used on laptop incase of keyboard failure)
1 line-in jack or microphone jack
*1 headphone jack
desktop *1 speaker jack
video ports dbd
Battery (if laptop)
Type, dbd
Ability to recharge in machine would be nice but not necessary.
* Battery life should be grater than five hours.
sound
Laptop: *built-in speaker/s (stereo would be nice)
* built-in DOS-compatible sound card
Screen-related
resolution: dbd
graphics etc.: dbd
OS
Latest stable release of Enhanced DR-DOS with all necessary drivers and patches. If not, then a machine with FreeDOS installed would be fine. I will accept a machine with MS-DOS or PC-DOS, so long as it is over MS-DOS 5.0 or the PC-DOS equivalent and can easily be changed to the more modern versions.
Ideal/optional
parts bought from Japan or America not China (really appreciated)
Laptop: 1 program or alarm to let me know when battery is running low
1 modem jack with internal 56k modem
1 ethernet jack
wireless card (WaveLAN and ORiNOCO are two brands known to work with DOS)
usb port
Hello.
I could actually do the desktop very easily. You would be looking at around £120 plus shipping. However, if you did want a tower as apposed to a desktop case it would come out at a little bit more. The only reason is that I have a desktop case that I'm not using at the moment that could house this build where as I don't have any spare towers that would work well in this situation so I would have to purchase one. Towers are expencive to ship.
To be completely honest, you'll probably find much lower quoats than I have given you. You might even find a shop that will have something that they can give you for free. However, the £120 isn't just paying for hardware. In the nicest way possible, you seem uncapable of performing your own research or actually acting on any research you perform. If this is ever going to even have a chance of working, it needs to be done by someone who has a good enough understanding of hardware and that also has a good enough understanding of the software side of things to be able to learn what they need to about dr dos.
Obviously I know next to nothing about dr dos at the moment, but the £120 would motivate me to learn what I need to to put together something that works.
Think it over. I have more or less nothing to do for the next 4 months, so I would have plenty of time to do this.
Wow! You're the second person who's offered to help me out with this and I'm completely amazed. That's insanely cheap, even when converted to dollars! Do you honestly think some places would have such a machine already built for free? I certainly don't mind a desktop. The tower was optional. Actually, I was thinking of a mini tower, the really small one that fits on the desk. I didn't realise that there was a separate word for that type, but anyway. How would you deal with the power issues, since your machine is figured to work on the UK system which is different in voltage from the American one? Just curious. I have information on Enhanced DR-DOS, including download and installation instructions, the link to the manual for regular DR-DOS etc, plus some screen reader links and all are fully legal. It would truly be wonderful to get this project started so I can finally have my dream machine!
God help us all...
More like Gods help make this a reality! *smile* I can't wait to see this thing fly! Links sent, including several extras with software links and information. If nothing else, I'm glad I was able to get all that stuff together so I could have all my resources in one place.
Their ya go Tif, I'd say go with what Ben is offering.
Yeah, certainly sounds nice. *smile*
I remember suggestion of doing a desktop. So now I'm suggesting Dell again, or now a pawn shop even, or used computer store. Smile.
Thanks. I'll see what I can find. A laptop would still be ideal, so if they have one, all the better. But at least, a desktop could get me started. I wonder if such a machine really does exist. I'm a bit detailed in my specs. lol
Well, on Sunday, I e-mailed at least seven places that all claim to make custom computers. Someone from Puget Systems, the one that's supposed to be one of the best in the business got back to me right away, on Sunday no less, and said that they were unable to help me but that they wished me luck on my search. This speaks volumes to me about their service and I responded that I'd recommend them to anyone looking for a custom machine based on this and everything that I've heard about them. Another JG Computers, another one that looked really good, e-mailed me on Monday and actually seemed interested in the project. They said that they needed to ask me a few questions and that they'd get back to me within 48 hours. Of course, they also mentioned that these parts are difficult to find, since they're no longer manufactured, but that comes as no surprise. I got an estimate of $60 from someone on another board, but I'm not sure if he/she is from America. That's a beautiful, but seemingly unrealistic, price for this machine, even if a friend did it and didn't charge for labour. We'll see what happens.
Well, it looks like the company is really serious! I e-mailed them and answered a few questions and heard back from a technician almost immediately. He asked me if I'd heard of virtualisation and if I wanted a modern machine, which would cut back on costs etc, since some of the parts are difficult to find. I said that I'd heard of it but that I wasn't sure if DOS could recognise serial and parallel ports and a floppy drive from within one. I need the serial for my synth, the parallel for my printer and embosser and the floppy for all of my programs. Plus, I don't want to have to deal with Windows. I want to boot right into DOS and I want it to control the computer and not to have other systems taking over. That said, as I told him, I've never used a virtual machine. We'll see what he says next, but it looks like I finally have a tech to help build this thing! Now I just need to truly decide if I want a desktop or a laptop. A desktop could include the 5.25 inch floppy along with the 3.5 and a zip disk and could also use the Braille Blazer as a synth, since both will be stationary. But it most likely won't have a built-in pcmcia slot which I'd really like, since I do all my file transfers across machines with a compact flash card. A laptop would be nice and light, I could take it anywhere, but would need a portable synthesizer such as a Dectalk or a KeyNote Gold voicecard. I only have the latter, which I love but which worries me because of it's fragility, and an Echo, which is horrible by almost any standard, though it does work. A laptop would also be more expensive, and though I doubt I'll be upgrading the hardware any time soon, it's harder to do on one as opposed to a desktop. Still, while it might be possible to find a desktop with similar specs to mine, finding a laptop like that is next to impossible. I searched for many hours on Ebay and couldn't find anything satisfactory.
you probably won't find anything satisfactory, but uh, keep searchin'.
Well, if I can find it through a search, I'm sure it will be much cheaper than having one made. I actually decided to start looking for computers with Windows 3.1 built-in, since, usually, that system came with DOS. So I'm assuming that it would also have DOS-compatible drivers etc. which could be downloaded at the site of the manufacturer, so that I can simply install them after installing the updated os. If not, then I'll just go custom.
I just heard back from the technician at JG Custom PCs (that's the real name of the company/sorry for the mix-up in an earlier post) and now I'm really torn about what I should do. He's definitely willing to build me the desktop and thinks it will be alot less than $600 or $800 which was the price I set as the maximum. The company's in contact with people who might have the parts and may even have some on hand themselves. He said that he can't build a laptop with my specs for that price, which is totally understandable, but that he could find one from that era. In both cases, the machine will be tested. I just don't know what to do. Both options are so good that I'm finding it difficult to weigh the pros and cons of each. The desktop would give me more options (5.25 inch disk, 3.5 inch super disk, usb 2.0 port) and flexability and would be actually made by them. But the laptop would give me portability. Still, there's the weight and the battery life to consider, especially if it's an older model, which, of course, it will be if I go that route. I also am not sure which synth I'll be using. If I'm able to find a Dectalk with a working battery, then I could hook it up to the serial port of a laptop and run with it. If not, I'll have to use my Echo, which is horrible, or take my chances with the delicate cord on the KeyNote Voice Card. And if the machine only has one pcmcia slot, I'm screwed, because I won't be able to use my compact flash card. But I won't be able to use it on the desktop either, unless they can somehow put a slot in there. I'll admit, I've never heard of a desktop with a pcmcia or compact flash slot. I could also use my Braille Blazer as a synth with the desktop, since it will basically stay in one place. I suppose I'll have to ask which is cheaper as well. Certainly, if I were to find a laptop on ebay etc. it would be cheaper than having the desktop made. But since he'll be searching for it and testing it, I'm not sure how much he'd charge for that. Should I get a steady stable desktop now and then buy a laptop later on? Help!
Actually, my boyfriend's desktop computer has a compact flash card slot, so if you requested one you might be able to get it. It would probably raise the cost a little bit, but if you really want one I'm sure it can happen.
Awesome! Yes, I'd truly love to have one, since that's how I do all of my file transfers. Thanks for letting me know that it could be done. Now I feel alot better. I went on ebay and found loads of laptops, several of which fit a large amount of my specifications. But then I remembered about the drivers. If a laptop was designed for use with Windows 95-98, it may not have DOS-compatible drivers or even things like a sound card that would work with the os once I downloaded a driver for it. Sound isn't essential but it would be really nice. I'd also need to see what other drivers are a must, because if these laptops don't have them or use special software that works only with said model, it may be difficult to find a generic third-party driver if one from the manufacturer doesn't exist. At least, with the desktop, everything will be custom so that won't be a problem. Still, the prices on some of these almost made me cry. We're talking as low as $.99 (that's 99 cents) and no more than $100. Several under $40 were in perfect working condition and a few even came with accessories! One even had the option of having DOS installed per request and the seller was very willing to work with the buyer to insure satisfaction. Maybe, I really could have it all. A cheap laptop to take out and have handy and a reliable custom desktop for the home.
I'm confused. If this tech is building you a machine why not ask for what you want? The desktop is better because you can always convert it or update it. Smile.
Yeah, I just didn't know it was possible to do that on a desktop. I have a huge amount of machines, so I highly doubt I'd need to convert it to a Windows machine and I probably wouldn't need to update it for many years. That said, you're right about the flexability and that's a very good thing. I could also have a scsi slot put in for a scanner if I can't find one that works on other ports (usb not applicable here, since it's only used for storage in DOS at the present.) I might get the desktop from them and a cheap laptop. Seems like the best option.
Most scanners are flexible and you don't need to mess with ports.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. If I don't have the right port/slot, I can't plug the scanner into the machine.
Most computers have the ports you need. They are standard.
Not this one. She'll have to say what types of ports she wants. Her printer is serial, so.
My printer is standard bi-directional parallel. But my synth is serial.
Ah okay makes sense now.
Do I need an isa slot? I keep forgetting to include it in my specs and I've seen several things that use it.
I disappeared for a bit there, but it looks like you've got everything taken care of anyway.
If for what ever reason this tech doesn't build you what you want, give me a shout. As I said, the build would cost much less than £120 and part of the reason why your getting much cheaper quoats than that is because I'm the only person out of the people that could be building you one that has read al your rants and knows how much of a bloody mission it's going to be to get this thing to work.
As a side note, if the tech is any good, you shouldn't have to tell him to use an isa slot. You'll want isa for things like graphics and sound where as pci will be for things like wireless.
I just sent you an e-mail with the final specs that I sent to the technician. These have some very minor changes from the last ones here and are only for the desktop, so you won't have the laptop specs in there as a distraction. The tech still hasn't called me back yet but I'm planning on calling him this week, unless you want me to wait for your estimate and info on whether or not you can find the parts.
This might interest you: Dos was originally named qdos (quick and dirty operating system) that microsoft bought and included ver batum (after switching things around to look like they made it) on the OS disc they were making for IBM. They later learned to program it and released updates, but dos wasn't a true microsoft production. I'd also be happy to take your macbook, but I don't have the money to do it.
It was originally created by a man named Tim Paterson, who is still living and who now runs his own company. QDOS is actually available for download. Interestingly enough, it's such a prototype that it doesn't even have directories! It wasn't even meant to be a full operating system, from what I understand.
Okay, I wanted to update you guys a bit, both on progress and on my specs. I haven't heard from the computer company since those initial e-mails, but honestly couldn't contact them either, since I didn't have the cash. I now have said money but if I can get it far cheaper, as was pointed out here, then I will go for that. I heard that isa slots can't be added onto a board and that Pentium 133s were probably the last to have them. So I need to choose between isa and pci. I'm also not sure if the scsi slot is necessary. If not, then just eliminate it. My friends who use DOS were surprised at my low ram, small disk drive and slow speed requirements. Apparently, these newer versions really can run on much more modern machines. But I need to be careful that essentials like the ports and floppy drives are still there and I don't want an insanely fast and powerful machine with loads of memory and a giant hard disk if I'm really not going to use all of that. What I need is a nice balance between too limiting and just right. It's also worth noting that I went to the Dell site and looked at their cheapest desktop with FreeDOS and it's way over and beyond what I'd need, even if I upgraded my specs. I don't think I need a 250g hard drive and a 2.2ghz processor. That hard disk is even too big for my XP needs! lol
Anyway, here are my specs. If anyone has any comments about reasonable upgrades please let me know.
===
Desktop Specifications
Form Factor
small/able to fit on desk (mini tower if possible and regular desktop if not)
Weight
whatever is reasonable for size and hardware included
hard disk capacity
No more than 5gb and no less than 100mb if there's no partition. Willing to accept a partition of a single 10gb drive split into two5gb drives or two separate internal drives but if you know how to makeDOS see more than 5gb I'll accept a larger single drive. Nothing over 20gb is needed.
Ram
No more than 64mb and no les than 32mb.
CPU Speed
No more than 500mhz and no less than 100mhz.
Input
Enhanced 101 keyboard (already owned but a new one is fine so long as it doesn't connect via usb port.)
Media
*1 3.5 in. (1.44mb,, LS240 or HiFD 200mb) floppy
*1 5.25 in. high dencity floppy,
1 cd rom
Connectivity
*1 standard RS-232 9-pin male serial port
*1 bidirectional female parallel port (2 if possible)
*1 pcmcia slot
*1 modem jack with internal 56k modem
1 ethernet jack
*1 ps/2 port
1 line-in jack or microphone jack
*1 headphone/speaker jack
video ports dbd
1 scsi slot
1 usb 2.0 port
Sound
*built-in DOS-compatible sound card (or external one with drivers)
Screen-related
resolution: dbd
graphics etc.: dbd
OS
Latest stable release of Enhanced DR-DOS with all necessary drivers
and patches preferred. If not, then a machine with FreeDOS installed.
Links and installation instructions will be provided.
Ideal/optional
parts from Japan,, America, Europe etc. and not china, Korea, Taiwan etc. (really appreciated)
ability to burn with cd rom if drive is included
wireless card (WaveLAN and ORiNOCO might work with DOS)
metal casing
1 750mb zip drive
other essential hardware dbd
I don't often do this, but am reposting something of mine from another thread so that those viewing this one will be updated on my progress. I've also added a bit of information that's more relevant to this thread.
Wow! I think I just found my dream machine! The only problems are that the screen is huge, the computer is heavy and the site is in Pakistan. Ah well, I'll search on Ebay. I'm providing the description from the Pakistani site, since it's short, but am also giving the link to Del's description with all sorts of technical details.
Dell Latitude D610
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfb/nb_scrn_14more/latit_d610/pd.aspx?refid=latit_d610&cs=28&s=dfb
• Intel® Centrino® Processor 2.0GHz
• 1 GB Memory DDR II 40 GB Hard Drive,
• Optical Drive Dual Layer Super Drive Capable of reading and writing CDs and DVDs
• 14.1� XGA TFT LCD 1024 x 768 Display
• Lan, Modem, WI-FI, Infrared, Serial Port
• Parallel Port, 4 USB 2.0, PCMCIA Slot
• XP Professional Licensed
While they do make a port replicator, those ports are actually in the machine! Plus, you can upgrade the ram to 2gb and the hard disk to 80gb and add a floppy drive and a type I or II compact flash card slot! Did I mention that the case is metal? It starts at only 4.67 lbs. but I just saw one that weighs 8 lbs! Ouch!
Since it has all the right ports and slots for my printer, synthesizer and compact flash card, plus the option of a floppy disk drive, this is the perfect machine for both Windows and Dos. I did a little searching, and while I couldn't find direct mention of someone using only DOS on one of these machines, I did locate the bios driver, which states specifically that it's for Windows and DOS. There was also mention of DR-DOS on a few sites, so I think it's safe to say that, with a partition of the hard disk, and a bit of the ram, I can have a dual boot system! So I'm essentially getting two machines in one! I had no idea that they made such fast machines with all of these options. My only concern, for some programs at least, is the extremely fast processor. But I know there are work-arounds so it isn't too much of an issue. I also read a very positive review of the Dell Latitude D610 here.
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2472
According to this review, the keyboard is full-sized and very solid, the machine is really fast and the battery life is fairly decent. It does have a strange noise when using headphones, but if that's the only real issue with it, who cares! I'll probably read a few more reviews, just to be fair, but it seems like everything that would need to be said can be found here, except whether or not the machine gets really hot when plugged in as some others do. At any rate, I'm pretty sure that I'll be getting this very soon. I just have to find one with the right configurations, or at least ones that can be cheaply upgraded if they're not, and at a decent price. I've come a long way from my dream of a palmtop but I think I've found a very good compromise.
I should do this just to do it. I think I could have gotten it done, but as I have posted you'd not be able to use it due to not being visual. Also the security problems and other factors would be a problem, and you'd not get online with it at all I'd bet in the US anyway. You stated you know people that actually use Dos, so if so why don't you ask them to buy a machine like they have from one of their sources? I am not being smart and would like your answer on that. Who are they, how many of them, and where do they live?
I'm confused. You should do what just to do what and what's not visual and why wouldn't I get online with it? I'd only need a dial-up account, since there are drivers, browsers and the like for access. I've also heard of ones for dsl but I have Verizon Fios. In any case, the Blind-L List has several DOS users on it. It's not terribly active, but every once in awhile, someone will post. For some odd reason, the subscribe feature doesn't work, so I had to get myself and a friend of mine subscribed by asking the owner to do it. Anyway, there's them for the blind end of things, as well as at least one person on the FreeDOS website and there's an entire section at computing.net for DOS users, though admittedly, it hasn't been updated in awhile.
http://www.computing.net/forum/dos/1.html
There is also a message board, entirely devoted to DOS, which was extremely active the last time I saw it (sometime last year) but I forget the site.
KIn any case, I've never thought of asking them about their machines. Interesting! I'm not sure if they're using newer ones or older ones. It would be interesting to know which and where they got them, particularly for those using more modern versions of the os. Still, I think this Dell sounds really neat, considering that it's lightening fast and has everything included. I just wish it were lighter and smaller. If nothing else, they're not that expensive on Ebay.
Sorry to confuse. I meant you'll not get online as you are now. You'll not be able to use some or many websites, because Dos doesn't support newer browsers. Now about the I should do this to see if I can, and all and I could probably get it done, is get a working computer as you want working. I don't see, except money, why you are having such a difficult time with it. Except for not being able to see, so finding the screen reader that will make it work. I have noted on other boards you say you actually have a Dos machine, but you are still looking for a Dos machine, so I am confused their. If you actually have contact with other blind users that use Dos and you really want one of these computers why did my suggestion surprise you, in that you could simply ask them about their machines? You are asking here and have on many boards, so why not these? Honestly I am not trying to be smart, but honestly I wonder about the things I have asked about. You looked on Dell's website and learned, of course, that on Dell's website they only have computers that can handle current applications, or that will, so the processors are gonna be par. Dell could not afford not to have even the lowest priced computer not be par, but early in this post I suggested you call Dell, because they might be able to get you set with something, and you early in this post had posted that Dell was supporting Dos still, and that made me suggest my suggestion. Okay long I know, but what is the hold up? Lol
The DOS machine that I have has extremely low specs, like a 486 processor (the lower end) and a hard disk under 100mb. I also couldn't get it to work the last time I tried it. Hopefully, it was just a fluke. If not, I have another of the same. The other DOS machine is an IBM Thinkpad 310 with a pentium 133mhz processor and a 2gb hard disk. If I remember correctly, it doesn't have a serial port but does have at least one pcmcia slot. It makes a weird wining noise when on and I haven't played with it long enough to find out if it's something bad or just an odd quirk. In any case, it has Windows 98 on it, so I could boot into real MS-DOS and skip Windows entirely and that would at least give me practice with the basics of the os before moving onto the DR variety.
At any rate, I was actually looking for an XP machine when I found out about this Dell. It just seemed that it would be the perfect machine for both systems, so I was extremely glad. True, it won't offer me the portability that I'm seeking for XP but it's still an option as a full desktop replacement, since I could hook up everything to it. The hold up was basically money. I've been without it for awhile, and now that I've saved up some, I can afford a machine.